[Geowanking] AR viewfinders & 3D geodata

Mike Liebhold mnl at well.com
Tue Aug 11 16:54:24 PDT 2009

Stefan Keller wrote:
> To me the problem is 1. Bad precision and 2. Lack of data.
Some quick thoughts on lack of interest on geowanking based on the two 
problems you mention above:

1."Bad Precision

We can safely anticipate precise positioning is on the way to being 
solved, at least for outdoor urban apps. Google, Microsoft and Nokia 
have all announced they are work on precise positioning of handsets, by 
matching significant points in images with a stored datablase of 3D 
points. A few weeks ago, at the GML Geoweb conference in Vancouver, 
Michael Jones, from Google showed a  3D model google guys mashed up from 
flickr images using something like MS photosynth. Aside from Earthmine, 
which I already mentioned,  I know of several unnanced projects to 
simial things, with much greater precision.

In any case, A lot of AR will work fine simply using a GPS and compass.

2. "Lack of Data"

What's new?! In 2003 when Joshua Schachter launched  geowanking, there 
was almost no geocoded web data, aside from his home grown GeoURL.  That 
didn't stop anyone on this list from experimenting. About the same time 
Chris Goad, Jo Walsh, Dan Brickley and others created a geo RDF,  ( 
IFTF.org)  Chris implemented  a  working demo  for us, at IFTF.org of  
geoRDF web annotations with integrated vector shapefiles from  the 
National Park Service. This demo, in '03 or '04 was the first full blown 
demo of a geospatial web.

Since then,   People on  the Geowanking list including, Mikel Maron, 
Andrew Turner, Alan Doyle, Raj Sing, Sean Gillies, Chris Schmidt,  Carl 
Reed, Ron lake and others,  designed and implemented  GeoRSS which has 
resulted in countless geocoded points, and sincel then, as we all know 
google has promulgated KML which has resulted in milions more geocoded 

Summary: It's time to start again. We need a simple way of geocoding 
augmented reality, and many ways of processing searching and  and 
viewing  geo AR.

Historically, the geowanking community, has been the crucible of 
innovation for a geospatial web.  ( see above)  Maybe five years ago, 
everyone was out on the street, and hungry enough to build a totally new 
ways to  experience spatial data., and maybe now everyone is gainfully 
employed and too distracted to launch a second perhaps even more 
interesting spatial web, viewable throught the viewfinders of our 
phones, and later on, perhaps in eyeglasses.  If that's the case, then 
we can all just sit back and let google build the whole thing without 
us. Clearly their latest UI implementations in Streetview are part way 

~ Mike

> We experimented with indoor enviromnents based on our Indoor WPS
> approach and server (see http://gis.hsr.ch/wiki/IndoorWPS). These are
> some screenshots of an Android prototype:
> http://dev.ifs.hsr.ch/indoorguide4android/wiki/WebDocu .
> So according to Mikes explanatory selection my answer is:
>> (X) d. Already into AR 3dgeo, not saying much about what we're doing until it's ready.
> Yours, Stefan
> P.S. BTW I also was expecting bit more of response about my recent
> thread about "Better auto-discovery in the Geo-Web through "see" and
> "see also" links?" since I thought geo-search technology could be of
> interest to geowankers. I still did'nt give up.
> 2009/8/4 Mike Liebhold <mnl at well.com>:
>> wow!  I didn't expect many replies  from busy people to my questions about
>> handheld viewfinder AR views of 3d geodata,  but given the staggering
>> potential for AR as a radical new kind of mapping is mind-boggling, I am a
>> bit surprised that  in the 24 hours of my post, this normally verbose
>> community has nothing to say.  Aside from a mild suggestion by Sean Gillies
>> of "democratizated service-oriented architectures of curation"  no one else
>> offered any thoughts at all about  viewfinder AR views of 3d geodata.
>> We can only guess why the silence:
>> ( ) a. Mostly into map views of geodata, not  very interested in viewfinder
>> AR 3d geo.
>> ( ) b. AR 3dgeo is interesting, but haven't thought much about it.
>> ( ) c. Have some ideas about AR 3dgeo, looking into it, waiting for apis, to
>> experiment
>> ( ) d. Already into AR 3dgeo, not saying much about what we're doing until
>> it's ready.
>> ( ) e. Have some ideas a bout  AR 3dgeo, but am too fr*&#n busy to respond
>> to random listserv e-mails :-)
>> whatever. AR looks like a fun, open frontier in both geoscience and
>> geohacking, let's hope the foss gang gets there before goog & apple own it.
>> - Mike
>> Mike Liebhold wrote:
>>> This is a humble request for geowanker mappers and geocoding web artists
>>> alike to join me to quiet our 2d cartographic minds for a minute to engage
>>> in a little thought experiment about  handheld views of 3d geodata:
>>> Context:   The realtime tweetsphere  http://bit.ly/rZncR and youtubesphere
>>>   http://bit.ly/UwQ3u are alive with news of handheld AR, [agumented
>>> reality] capabilities & apps, and services. Besides layar and wikitude on
>>> android, there are already a number cool hacks for jailbroken iPhones, and
>>> veiled confirmations from apple that the next rev. of the iphone os dev
>>> release for the 3gs will support AR app integration of gps, compass, and
>>> graphic overlay of video cam views.  The viewfinder is becoming a new AR 3d
>>> web browser.
>>> AR is here, if not today, tomorrow, but i suspect our geosphere is not
>>> ready.
>>> questions for fellow geowankers:
>>> 1. What kind of geodata and locative media will be most useful or fun to
>>> see geopositioned in 3d in our handheld viewfinders.
>>> e.g.  floating labels of things, animated directions, emergency alerts,
>>>  news and ads to filter, cartoon games, visible clouds of wifi signal
>>> strength, visible sensor net readings of air quality.. visible entry into
>>> another colored polygon
>>> of cartographic meaning, etc.
>>> 2. How will we search, view, create, and serve open 3d AR geodata?
>>> 3. What is the  prospective FOSS stack for 3dAR geoservices?
>>> e.g.  starting at the top with a 3D firefox or open layers equivelant
>>> client down to a cloudwide RESTful deep geocoded web of linked 3D geodata?
>>> Just curious, what people are thinking these days . . .
>>> Mike
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