[Geowanking] does it make sense to try to write a new mapping engine?

[R E Sieber]

"premature optimization". Let's hope it never afflicts the geowankers.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Renee

Anselm Hook wrote:
> I've been thinking a bit that maybe one of the secret inhibitors of 
> good open source mapping is the map rasterization tools...  ( by 
> comparison to the state of the art of the engines underlying 
> applications in other domains such as say flight gear ).
>
> If you look at the quality of results from google maps and from 
> microsoft - you really do see them starting to play with richer 
> representations of geometry as well.
>
> Mapserver and Mapnik both generate 2d raster maps - they can't "loft" 
> geometry into 3d and they can't take advantage of the hardware 
> acceleration many motherboards provide ( as far as I know - although 
> the anti-grain technology in mapserver may do so now? ) .  Since 
> they're intended to be used in a kind of "offline" mode - not used to 
> generate real time interactive displays - they tend to be used only in 
> server environments; not as an all in one solution - like for say a 
> high performance native client...  so they get exercised less and 
> improved less.
>
> I guess the same is true for geoserver.
>
> There's a related problem of premature optimization that you see in 
> the GML OGC standard and in standards such as ESRI shapefiles.  They 
> lack concepts such as multiple-instancing, 3d, matrix transforms, 
> scene-graphs - all basic concepts that are so important for swiftly 
> representing complex geometry.  Style management is hard as well....  
> but this is unrelated to the focus of the discussion here.
>
> In any case - it feels like there might be merit in building (or 
> finding) a better rasterization stack.  Offhand I see such a stack 
> including:
>
> 1) 3d.
>
> 2) Hardware accelerated.
>
> 3) Vector Font Support.
>
> 4) Deterministic de-cluttering.  ( more suitable for tile generation 
> -> crschmidt's tile cache project has to request large images to then 
> slice up - and this is in part due to the way that the decluttering 
> will yield different results based on requested image size ).
>
> 5) Import support for shapefiles, gml, postgis and the like.
>
> 6) Plug-in architecture with a minimalist core.  (  one of the things 
> that is so frustrating about mapserver and mapnik is how (like most 
> unix apps) they depend on pretty much the entire universe of every 
> other application ever written...  it is like the minimum quanta of 
> computing is the unix operating system...   I would like to run a 
> microkernel mapping engine on an iphone! )
>
> 7) Scripting  ( python, lua, ruby ... even php )
>
> 8) Runs as a native app; not just intended to run as a cgi... embeddable.
>
> Of course proposing to build yet another mapping engine is foolhardy.  
> But I figured it could get a few minutes speculation.  What tools out 
> there could make such a project less tedious?
>
> 1) http://vterrain.org => vterrain which is based on openscenegraph 
> might be a one stop shopping solution.
>
> 2) http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg   => open scene graph by 
> itself might do the trick...
>
> 3) A 3d game rendering engine =>  One benefit would be collision 
> detection and "operator in the loop" functionality as well as a 
> framework for behavior such as digital agents... see 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine ...  but that's probably 
> overkill eh?
>
>  - anselm
>
>
>     -------- Original Message --------
>     Subject:        [web-49] Lineup Announced: Web 2.0 Mapping and
>     Social Networks Group August Meetup
>     Date:   Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:57:53 -0400
>     From:   Catherine Burton <catherine at endpointenvironmental.com
>     <mailto:catherine at endpointenvironmental.com>>
>     Reply-To:       web-49 at meetup.com <mailto:web-49 at meetup.com>
>
>
>
>     July's Meetup was a HIT! We had 80+ people attend, which was just
>     super great. Thanks guys. You Rock!
>
>     *Locate, Locate, Locate* is the theme for August's Meetup. We've
>     scheduled presentations from three companies that build apps to
>     locate people, places, and things.
>
>     The Lineup:
>
>     Loopt <http://www.loopt.com/> - you know 'em, you love 'em, but
>     have you met 'em...
>     Geogad <http://www.geogad.com/geogad/index> - "Your personal
>     mobile tour guide"
>     3SI Security Systems <http://www.3sisecurity.com/>- "...the world
>     leader in cash protection systems..."
>
>     Also, due to your organizers deep affinity for sugar, I've decided
>     that we *need* and will have free chocolate samples from the Bay
>     Area's own Fearless Chocolate <http://www.fearlesschocolate.com/>
>     once again.
>
>     Come for the information, stay for the community. Remember, you
>     make this Meetup great.
>
>     Please make a note of our new location at Google in Mountain View!
>     Check this page within the week of the event date for an exact
>     building number and room name.
>
>     Thanks folks. See you there,
>
>     Catherine
>
>
>     P.S If you have an interesting or fledgling geo/social web, GIS,
>     app or tech that you would care to share, please do not hesitate
>     to contact us:
>
>     Catherine Burton - catherine at endpointenvironmental.com
>     <mailto:catherine at endpointenvironmental.com>
>     <http://catherine@endpointenvironmental.com
>     <http://endpointenvironmental.com>>
>     Alec Dara-Abrams - ada at dara-abrams.com
>     <mailto:ada at dara-abrams.com> <http://ada@dara-abrams.com
>     <http://dara-abrams.com>>
>
>
>
>
>     --
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>     <mailto:catherine at endpointenvironmental.com>) from Web 2.0 Mapping
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