[Geowanking] ogc control? of kml

Andrew Turner ajturner at highearthorbit.com
Thu Apr 24 05:44:34 PDT 2008


On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Mike Liebhold <mnl at well.com> wrote:
>
>  Thanks for your reply. Your answer is  only a very literal interpretation
> of the first part of my question. What I was really asking about was the
> de-facto KML that google implements unilaterally in google earth way ahead
> formal OGC adoption. There are many KML elements  in google earth that  are
> -not- part of KML 2.2.  e.g. KML3.0++  Doesn't google still control the
> future of KML through these pre-standard implementations?

I agree that really what truly guides a format is the implementation -
not just a document or agreement by some company or organization.

Therefore, in some ways, *anyone* can push the spec forward by
implementing changes in their publishing/consuming software. At least
as part of a demonstration. And because Google doesn't own the IP, a
developer can do this without worry of infringing.

Also consider that many are closely watching Google's handling of KML
and the OGC - so it behooves them to do just as they say and abide the
process and decisions of the organization.

A larger concern should be *how* does the spec move forward? Standards
bodies are notoriously slow, by design perhaps, and are typically
reactive rather than guiding. Look at CSS3 or "RESTful" Geo Services.
Say Google or someone else has a really great concept for KML they'd
like to move forward with because it adds some nice features or
capabilities, then this could take a long time to be moved through and
approved.

And how does the standard gain the broader input of developers and
users. OGC is obviously a fairly small sample size and select group.
Yet KML is one format aimed to provide utility to non-geo-specific
applications. I'd be interested to hear thoughts on how to engage
feedback from non-typical people to inform and influence decision
making inside the OGC.

We've tried this with GeoRSS through blogs, forums, and conferences
laying out plans and receiving feedback - and then opened up "Interop
days" for anyone interested to chat and stand-up demonstrative
services. Would the same work with KML?


>
>  My other question  is what is left out of the OGC KML2.2 spec ? I
> understand that a fair amount of 3d grammar is not part of KML 2.2. What
> else?

What do you mean specifically? KML 2.2 has 3d geometry.

>
>  In addition to a formal  Google response (yours), I was hoping that someone
> like Raj Singh, Carl Reed, Ron Lake, or Andrew Turner might also comment.
>
>  Thanks for any insights you can share
>
>  Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>  Mano Marks wrote:
>  Hi y'all,
>
> I just wanted to address a couple of the points raised on the thread.
> To be completely out there, in case you missed my email address, I
> work for Google supporting Geo APIs.
>
> Mike asked if the OGC owns the future of KML. It does. Google no
> longer owns any KML IP.. The OGC owns all of it. Google is a member of
> the OGC, and we hope to be one of the drivers of innovation, but we
> don't own it or have any special privileges other OGC members don't
> have.
>
> Allan, you asked for a non license-agreement copy of something. Did
> you mean of the spec or just the documentation?
> This link:
> http://schemas.opengis.net/kml/2.2.0/
> doesn't require signing a license
>
> Also, the KML 2.2 SWG at OGC is also open:
> http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/groups/kml2.2swg
>
> Also, the KML docs on Google's site are pretty up to date.
> http://code.google.com/apis/kml/documentation/
>
> If it is a different doc, I can see if I can get it for you.
>
> Mano
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Allan Doyle <afdoyle at mit.edu> wrote:
>
>
>  It's a little hard to tell, they have a click-through license at the OGC
> site. Does Google have a non-DRM'ed copy anywhere?
>
>  Allan
>
>
>
>  On Apr 18, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Mike Liebhold wrote:
>
>
>
>  More (perhaps old) news ( 4/13) " OGC(R) Approves KML as Open Standard"
>
>  The formal press release from OGC appended below, and this on a google blog
>
>
>
>
> http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2008/04/kml-new-standard-for-sharing-maps.html
>
>
>  "Starting today, Google no longer controls KML. The Open Geospatial
>
>  Consortium (OGC), an international standards body, has announced the
> completion of KML's standardization process. KML has become an OGC Standard,
> and the OGC will take responsibility for maintaining and extending it. This
> transfer of ownership is a strong reflection of Google's commitment to open
> standards. Fundamentally, our interest is not to control information, but
> rather to encourage its spread."
>
>
>  Despite this announcement , does the OGC community actually now 'own'
>
>  the future of kml? I'm not sure.
>
>
>  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can comment on whether not Google
>
>  actually still controls KML destiny, with all of their queued up kml3.0 and
> beyond features and extensions they can unilaterally adopt and implement
> in google earth, before submission or adoption by OGC committees.
>
>
>  I'm also wondering about highlights of alignment with GML, and what major
>
>  elements are left out or postponed in this 'standard' version. Some 3d
> elements perhaps?
>
>
>  Raj or Carl or Ron anyone in the OGC KML groups care to share any
>
>  comments? (Andrew?)
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  http://www.opengeospatial.org/pressroom/pressreleases/857
>
> OGC(R) Approves KML as Open Standard
>
> Wayland, Mass., April 14, 2008 - The members of the Open Geospatial
>
>  Consortium, Inc. (OGC) today announced the approval of the OpenGIS(R) KML
> Encoding Standard (OGC KML), marking KML's transition into an open standard
> which will be maintained by the OGC. Developers will now have a standard
> approach for using KML to code and share visual geographic content in
> existing or future web-based online maps and 3D geospatial browsers like
> Google EarthTM.
>
>
>  "We are pleased to see the adoption of KML as an OGC standard," said Ron
>
>  Lake, chairman and chief executive officer of Galdos Systems Inc. "We
> believe that this is a major step forward for the OGC and for the entire
> geographic information community, as it provides the first broadly accepted
> standard for the visualization of geographic information."
>
>
>  "Geographic data adds tremendous value to the online experience. More and
>
>  more people are looking for ways to incorporate location information into
> their online content," said Michael Weiss-Malik, KML product manager for
> Google. "The standardization of KML makes it possible for both novice and
> expert users alike to publish and share geographical information in an open
> format. It's not unlike web browsers' standardized support for HTML, which
> allows any web browser to read any web page."
>
>
>  KML version 2.2 was brought into the OGC consensus process by a submission
>
>  team led by Google and Galdos Systems Inc.
>
>
>  KML is an XML-based programming language, originally developed to manage
>
>  the display of geospatial data in Google Earth. It's still used heavily in
> Google Earth but is also supported by a variety of vendors' tools and
> mapping websites.
>
>
>  The OpenGIS KML 2.2 Encoding Standard formalizes the KML 2.2 model and
>
>  language while remaining backwards compatible with existing KML 2.2 files
> and tools. In comparison with the GoogleTM KML 2.2 Reference, the standard
> defines:
>
>
>  * the KML 2.2 geometry encoding and interpolation model
>  * an extension model in support of application profiles
>  * conformance requirements and test cases
>
> The adopted OpenGIS KML 2.2 Encoding Standard (OGC KML) is available at
> http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/kml/.
>
> About the OGC
>
> The OGC(R) is an international consortium of more than 345 companies,
>
>  government agencies, research organizations, and universities participating
> in a consensus process to develop publicly available geospatial standards.
> OpenGIS(R) Standards support interoperable solutions that "geo-enable" the
> Web, wireless and location-based services, and mainstream IT. OGC Standards
> empower technology developers to make geospatial information and services
> accessible and useful with any application that needs to be geospatially
> enabled. Visit the OGC website at http://www.opengeospatial.org/.
>
>
>  Google and Google Earth are trademarks of Google Inc.
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-- 
Andrew Turner
mobile: 248.982.3609
andrew at mapufacture.com 42.2774N x 83.7611W
http://highearthorbit.com Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

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